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I sat down (on the phone) with Sage Francis, here's what came out. (You'll note that I didn't completely transcribe my questions)

Sage Francis Interview

I was wondering if you could talk a bit about your journalism background.

Sage: I don't have much of a journalism background, I did go to college for it but it wasn't initially for it – it was just a major I ultimately chose in my last two years of college. And I did that because it was easy [laughs]. All of my energy and focus was outside of class at that point. I was doing the radio stuff and it was an easy way to breeze through classes, which I know sounds really wack – especially when you're paying for classes. It is just one of those stupid things I had to do, but I was really interested in it too. What I really wanted to do was music journalism. If I had to get a job – I had to get a real job, in the real job market - I would have wanted to get a job at The Source Magazine or fuckin' Rap Pages – some magazine I read as a kid. But that never panned out, obviously.

When guys like me interview you, do you see a lot of flaws:

Interviews are different, I mean, I tried my hand at interviews when I was on my radio show and I tried having a couple of interviews on my radio show a while back, but I turned out to be quite an awful interviewer. So, I can never fault anyone for doing an interview. I guess my one gripe is that people do ask the same question over and over again, so I am forced to either give stock answers or come up with lies that interest me and don't sound completely fake.

What aren't music journalists doing?

Music journalists aren't writing well. There aren't a lot of music journalists that are actually doing a lot of writing. They're doing a lot of re-posting of press statements and re-posting of blogs. Press agents, publicists and artists – I am speaking from personal experience here – will write a full on bio or a break down of an album and it will just be rehashed or re-written or even copied on other sites. A lot of music journalism has been confined to to websites. One thing I can't fault Pitchfork for is that they have original writing. I mean, I have a lot of gripes with them, but I like reading their stuff whether they're trashing me or praising me. I just like reading their stuff – they're very masturbatory with their language. They jerk off while they write, taking out their thesaurus: 'what word has never been used in the past ten years?' and then they use it and make me go to the dictionary and look it up.

On Cadence Weapon:

That dude's multi-talented, he's the national treasure. Isn't he poet laureate?

Edmonton:

Yeah, that whole tour is such a blur to me. I didn't know where the fuck I was half the time – I was stowed away. They (the other bands) didn't even know I was on tour, I was hiding in one of the bunkers. They didn't know I was part of the tour, I just snuck on.

On Rise Against Tour:

People weren't there to see me, obviously and that leaves me with an interesting opportunity. I could either totally take the crowd by surprise and they'll go home and remember, or I will do something that they will hate and they'll remember. So it was good for me – I was happy to have that opportunity. However, playing arena shows – playing inside of these massive, massive spaces was not enjoyable. It is not what I want to do with my life. I don't want to get some large that I end up playing those huge shows. I mean the money's there, but that is not how I perceive performance art to be. It's definitely many degrees separated with any intimacy you can have with a crowd.

If you can put on the journalist hat for a second, what would you describe your hip-hop career like?

I'm like the fuckin' Sarah Palin of hip-hop, man – I'm a fucking maverick and I'm totally a milf. I play by my own rules and that may have stopped me from being the next Eminem, but I'm really fucking happy with where I'm at. If I was a journalist I would like to explain how that was [becoming an Eminem] was even possible when I came up. These days it's almost impossible for various reasons. In fact, I think that would be a great angle for an in-depth story: just talking about how the independent scene in hip-hop had a lot more potential back when I started because of the internet, on both sides of the spectrum. It was both possible for artists to blow up early on because of the internet, and and now it's impossible for dude's to blow up because of the internet.

Go on....

Well, early on – and this is before people were so content and, let's put it this way, they bought music – people would support the artists, however, in ten years time, people are finding out about artists but they aren't supporting the artists because they grew up downloading music. Artists aren't able to build any type of business – any type of empire – they really are just fighting for scraps week after week. The music becomes more and more disposable because you release an MP3 and then you have to release another one a week later because of this type of mentality. It's like 'what's new for my iTunes playlist?'. Adjusting to the new paradigm has been frustrating and challenging: here I am trying to run a record label and break artists that deserve to be heard, who deserve respect and deserve to be supported, but a lot of people just sort of gave up and said 'well, music is free'. And there's no way we can change it. I'm just gonna keep talking about it but it's not going to change anything. I guess we fucked up, whaddya gonna do about it?

How did you fuck up?

We fucked up – as listeners and as artists – by over saturating ourselves. Music became very disposable. The craft kind of went away. I am not a huge fan of regulations or anything, but maybe if music piracy was hit earlier it could be a better situation now. I really don't know – I mean, I have no fucking idea. Here we are in 2010 with people having a very difficult time living off of their music, whereas earlier on we were lucky. I was kind of lucky because I established myself when people were actually still buying music. I was able to use my money – spend more money, to make more money – in order to build my business to record quality albums, and kind of raise my status within the music industry to get coverage, etc. A lot of kids – new rappers – aren't even able to get booking agents interested because agents outside of their city don't really want to book them because they aren't really known outside of their city. There are no sales to back up claims.

The whole idea of punk rock sort of transferred into hip-hop and you can see a lot of parallels there. [Brett Guerewitz, Epitaph, Anti]

Yeah, there are tonnes of parallels and I'm glad that Brett saw that [Andy Kaulkin, President of Epitaph].

What turns has hip-hop taken over the years, you've implied. Your tastes are so eclectic – that comes through especially with your new album – why is that important? Why is it relevant?

I don't know. My music is not a sign of hip-hop, it's just a sign of what can be done with hip hop; a possibility. I am a possibility of hip-hop. I am a certain potential of hip-hop – even to the point where people will even question if I am hip-hop and that makes sense to me. I used to get kind of bugged if people would push me out of the hip-hop genre and be like 'naw, that's not hip-hop' and i was like 'i was inspired by hip hop, everything I do is from hip-hop. If it's not hip-hop, what the fuck is it?'. And they'd create new genres to dismiss me or tear me down somehow. Every time they'd come up with a new term – like nerd-rap, backpacker rap, or whatever – it would be anything other than hip-hop and I'd get mad at that, but now even though there is no term that encapsulates the kind of stuff that I make, I'm okay with it being called anything. A lot of the stuff I've made up to this point is in a different class, not to say that it's in a better class, it's just a different class. It's just different. I put a lot of work into it, I put a lot of my experience into it and a lot of people relate to it and others feel that it isn't what they want out of hip-hop. And I'm still having a hard time trying to figure out why people would trip over what I'm doing.

Some people might say that this isn't anything like what you were doing around Personal Journals....

Oh yeah, but if I was still making that album 10-years later, they'd be fucking 'Ahh, it's the same old shit.' What is most important is that I followed my own impulses. If I paid attention to what I thought people wanted to hear out of me, it would sound false and I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do.

Eminem:

Eminem's career was developed, he was kind of manufactured and there were a lot of us back there who were so desperate and there were a lot of talented cats. A lot of people want to say Eminem is 'The Best' but there were a lot of people who could have been in the same position he is now with the right manufacturing and career push – just the gloss and sheen that he had. And obviously the dude is multi-talented. He has impressive skills that are original and unique, but when he came out there was a lot of that. There was an electricity in the scene. I wouldn't even put it past myself – there were points in my life where I just knew I didn't want to go unheard, and I'd do anything it takes to just get out there. And if it had come about where someone saw that they had the chance to mold me and turn me into a sellable artist on a grand scale I probably would have submitted to that – especially if it was fucking Dr. Dre or some other legendary. When you're sleeping on a floor every night, you're willing to make those concessions. I'm just truly happy that the decisions that I made, every move that I made, every step that I took – whether I learned it the hard way, or I was lucky enough the first time – that from bottom to top I created my career, I created myself and was in control the whole way. I never made a concession, and I'm really proud of that – I feel really content in that.

All I can say is the best thing about Edmonton is Cadence Weapon. We were in the cold frozen tundra of Canada the whole time – I just got out the bus, played my set and sold my merch – this time I'm coming in a van, so I'll get to check out the culture a bit more.

Enjoy 'The Best of Times', which was the easily the highlight of his Edmonton stop.

Here's the interview (e-mail) that I had with Mr. Henry Rollins, or as I like to call him, Henry 'To the Point' Rollins.

What inspires the strongest feelings for you now? Politics, Music, Art, Literature?
====== Politics. It is a life and death proposition at this point.

How do you look at the 25 yr. old version of yourself? What would you tell yourself?
====== I was very defensive and selfish. I was reactive to what was coming at me, a lot of hostility was aimed at me in that year, so I reacted. What would I tell myself? I should have hit the fuckers harder and faster.

All of your stories are so engaging, are your stories as amazing as they seem, or is the craft in the story telling? Follow up: Most people can (potentially) capture another mind for mere minutes with their stories - how do you do it for hours and keep it so engrossing? Do you see the art of spoken word, much like the art of literature? All good books have one thing in common - they are truer than if they had really happened. - Hemingway
========= You need good source material, and then you can do what Hem said. The most important thing is good material, then it's all fun.

Everyone seems to cycle through a variety of emotions/images during one of your live shows - I would certainly admit that I've felt the spectrum of feelings - but what makes the show great for you as an artist? How do you differentiate between audiences? Is there indications that you're in Australia vs. Canada, for instance? What makes Canada so appealing to you as an Artist?
======= I am not an artist. What makes a show great for me is if I hit all the marks, made sense, delivered with a minimum of error. Shows are different in different countries sometimes when there's something that truly interests me about something there. I would never throw something in to the show just so an audience knows I know where I am. That would be a lie and you can't fool an audience. I like Canada, I like Canadians, at least the ones at my shows. They are a very very cool and switched on bunch. I consider myself very lucky.

Do you find your performances as inspirational or motivating like so many would say?
======== I am not in the audience, I am not reacting to the show.

What would you likely be doing if you weren't doing the spoken word shows/writing/singing/producing/acting/etc-ing?
======== Probably working a regular job. That's what I come from.

Is there a bit of a feeling of speaking from a platform (call it soap box if you like) during the career of a spoken word artist/lecturer/professor/comedian, even?
====== I don't know. I get out on a stage and talk to people. If you are talking about preaching to the perverted, sure, there's always a degree of that. The only way to break that is to crash a tea party and speak there. No thank you.

What would change in your show if you didn't attract thousands of attendees, but only 10's?
===== Nothing. I am only speaking to you and you're only listening to me.

Here's a transcript of the entire Chuck D interview - those questions are not literally what I asked him, but no one really cares what I asked, let's be real about it.

April 21, 2010

So, how's it going today?

I'm pretty busy, that's what it's like.

What's your best memory of Edmonton?

Driving in and seeing the mountains behind the city.

Oh, no..that's Calgary.

I don't think it's Calgary, I think it's Edmonton. Edmonton, I know we played there. Playing in a mall – we played in the mall. I don't know, I drive into Edmonton before. Edmonton is kind of on a hilly bluff – there's lots of hills there.

What do you feel like playing for a whitewash audience?

I mean, I don't know what it says about hip-hop but obviously if I'm going to a place that is predominantly white, I'm gonna play for the people there. That's the way it's always been. If I go to Nigeria, I'm going to play for Nigerians and the black people there, so that's what it is.

It doesn't matter to you as an artist then?

Why would it matter to me? I'm gonna be who I am, I'm gonna say something about myself. So that's gonna be that..

I just wonder if the direction of hip-hop has changed at all to cater towards a white audience.

I think the direction of hip-hop always changes.

Do you like the current state of hip-hop?

I think the current state always changes as well, whether you like it or not. It's kind of like if you follow golf, you like a different thing that attracts you as an audience. Who I like and who my youngest daughter likes, who is 16, is a totally different world. If you asked me what I feel about somebody who is 16-17 years old, I just want them to be able to do something that they believe in and take it back up.

Do you think something like Fear of a Black Planet has a different relevance than it once did?

There's not much of a change as far as the world is concerned. 20 years is not long as far as the world is concerned. As far as a social structure, you almost have to look back to look at the conditions then in order to see where we've come from. It was definitely relevant in its time and it's relevant as a historical piece. Is it relevant today? It depends on how much you wanna open your head up.

Do you think that the scene, the hip-hop scene, has changed dramatically since then?

Has it changed for you in Edmonton?

When that album came out I was a child.

It's important for some music to tell it as it is instead of trying to go where money says it should go. It's a thing that Pete Seeger says very well: There are two roads, you can go where the money wants you to go, or you can go where the truth wants you to go. A lot of times people, with their art, are forced to take the road that money wants them to go. It's a marriage that has to be figured out in everybody's artistic career.

Sorry, that was Pete Seeger who said that? Obviously Seeger is a totally different artist than a rapper, but there are common threads there.

I mean bottom line, he's a musician. When you talk about Pete Seeger, words weigh heavy. We have to understand that it's all interconnected. And when we don't, we set ourselves up for scrutiny.

What's important to you now as an artist, as opposed to when you started? Same thing?

Umm.. Good question. I think what is important to me now is always trying to figure out I make the road paved for the artists I work with and hip-hop to persevere. I mean look, you can't just look at the brass strokes and say 'alright, hip-hop's a billion dollar business' – I mean most of the artists I have on my label [Slamjamz] have no profit. They're trying to climb up from the unknown and they have a hard way to go; they have a hard road as independent artist. My job is: how many opportunities can we [Public Enemy] actually expand with what we try to do as a known name. How can we expand the road for the unknown so they can expand the road for the genre and the marketplace? The stronger the marketplace and the genre, the stronger the artist will be.

Do you think the market is saturated by somewhat 'bogus' hip-hop?

Well, I mean we gotta answer our own questions. Do you think the marketplace is drowned and crowded with a whole bunch of bogus rock groups.

Yes, I would say that for sure.

I don't think many acts come into the game saying 'okay, we're going to be a bogus group'. Everybody has their own efforts, everybody has their own thing. I think the cream rises to the top, you just wanna be able to be fair across the board. There's a lot of people in your country playing hockey but you know where the NHL is. Do you discourage the young kids from playing hockey because they're not going to make the pros?

At one time, you could say that PE was rebelling against something....what do you feel hip-hop in general is rebelling against something right now?

Ummm....I think it's rebelling against itself [Laughs]. There are certain things in hip-hop you really gotta pay attention to. You have to have great public relations. I think it's important in hip hop to pay attention to it's past, it's present and also the fundamentals and foundations. Whenever hip-hop does not pay attention to that, it has a tendency to kind of counter itself in a backwards motion that doesn't fit the genre. I didn't mean to give you a complex answer, but the bottom line is that it's gotta be beyond simple beats and rhymes. But they also gotta pay attention to them too.

Do you think that young people understand the roots of hip hop?

People only understand what they're taught. And if they're not taught it and they're being sold it by a corporation, then that's problematic.

Do you think corporate acts like Kanye West or whoever are teaching the fundamentals of hip-hop?

I think that there's certain fundamentals that come out in Kanye, yes. He's very clear on his production techniques. I think, once again, he's in a zone where money starts to tell you what to do and they start to question how much they can get across. I think there is a lot in every artist, I don't think it's the artists problem at all. I think the broadcasting and the coverage of the art form needs to step up. The DJ's need to be better and more informative. If you look at hip-hop on television, who is conveying what that artist is all about? How is it being held? When people read about it in print, are they paying attention to the small details about an act? All of these things are things a fan needs to know in order to a) become a participant or b) remain a fanatic. The coverage of hip-hop is terrible. I salute hip-hops sites like: hiphopdx.com or allhiphop.com for trying to be thorough with it. The internet offers us opportunities for information for something that is an art form that is really exciting.

Do you think corporations strangle emerging artists?

I think corporations are trying to figure out how to survive. They will take one particular artist who they know works and milk it to death. Development is null and void, they don't have time for it they say.

You were at the forefront of using the internet for your own good and that's essential these days, would you agree?

Of course, 35 years ago it was actually impossible to get your name out if it wasn't in print, in television you had no control over, and in radio you had to spend a lot of money to be heard. Now you can be heard. It goes beyond anything else.

Do you think that because PE is so big that you're outside of the framework of corporate rule?

We have our own existence because we invested in going around the world at a very formative era of hip-hop. We were able to go around the world and invest in our name and what we were about – what we did. We were able to do it on our own terms. And we didn't come up with ourselves. We learned from groups like the Rolling Stones. How do the Rolling Stones remain relevant? But we don't buy the fact that just because you come from a different, you can't be relavant. I mean, the Rolling Stones were around before you were born but if they came to Edmonton and played a stadium, there's gonna be a lot of people that wasn't around when the Rolling Stones began – shoot, even when they was 10 years, or 20 years old. The Beatles have two deceased members and young people, 18 years old, wear Beatles shirts. We like to think of ourselves as taking the Rolling Stones route – we can be relevant but on our own terms. We can always say: the truth will always be the direction you can align yourself with or being highly-opinionated on something that's real.

Do you find your lyrics are the truth? A strong opinion?

I think it's strong opinion but related very closely to something I perceive as the truth.

Do you think that artists are allowed to do the same these days?

Allowed! Heh. Artists should feel that they're allowed to say anything because a lot of artists say things that they don't even believe. If you're going to say something, say what you really believe.

Chuck D's voice as an artist.

Yeah, I can't look at it as something I'm trying to sell. It is what it is. Another thing that is not cool is to rebel against aging. I'm not trying to pretend I'm 22. I won't pretend I'm something I'm not. This is something you often see artists rebelling against because it might hurt their street cred, which is really a farce. It's marketability – like a company will say 'well, we need to market you, so we can't reveal your real age'. That's just stupid. It has nothing to do with the music.

I guess it was just a coincidence that PE was marketable, do you know what I'm saying?

We had to do this on our own, we didn't have a company to market us. And that wasn't like we marketed ourselves – we just told it how it really is and who we are.

Do you think that The United States is heading towards a health-care system like Canada has?

I hope so, I hope so. There's a whole lot of fighting going on here.

So, you're a supporter of Barack?

Oh, no question. I'm a supporter of President Obama and I admit to being bias. That's why I tell people to enjoy this and embrace this time 'cuz they might look back and think 'damn', that's for sure.

Hollywood:

What do you feel like Flav's role is in Hollywood?

It's not in Hollywood, Flavour Flav's role is a being a visual character. He's a visual component for Public Enemy as well as a audio component.

Flavour Flav is like drinking a cup full of sugar.

Are you bothered by his depiction?

Does a cup full of sugar bother you if it isn't in context? It could.

HE is chastised for his role, that's all.

You don't expect that Flavour would come to Edmonton and give his speech on warm climate.You wouldn't take that seriously. Why would you? Flavour does what he does.

What bothers me personally is that the people who actually produce the show or the girls who are on it totally see it. Everyone is trying to get their star on.

When you hit Edmonton is it going to be the full line-up?

It should be. My biggest beef with Canada is getting into the country. I have a problem with that. I think that Canada is one of the most racist borders in the world. My disclaimer is that I don't believe in countries and borderlines fully any more. It's a ridiculous and dated notion. They are a ridiculous notion of territorialism that is only a blink away from the cave man days. There is no possible way you can own and claim the planet. So passports and all that is just the white man's way. 'This is our land and you can't cross this' is just white man's testosterone and Canada's full of it because there is no way you can take a place that is so big, has 37 million people and have the audacity to keep people from moving in there. What is it? Is it because Canada has which are the fuels of the future? They're going to be so strict on who can come in. I mean, there's too many people in India, there are too many people in Africa and the world needs population distribution.

I guess it's based on prior convictions and the like.

It's based on war-like, white male supremacy and opinions. When I made Fear of A Black Planet I definitely talked about that because there's a fear of proper distribution of people on this planet.

It's sad because things haven't changed.

Look man, black people didn't get to Haiti on their own, they were brought to Haiti. So many people compressed on to half of an island and they had the nerve to talk about how they have to stop reproducing so much? That's bullshit, man. It's the same old thing. I'm not an old cantenkerous dude who is talking about shit that don't mean shit. It's obvious, so...am I affected, is my group? Not having a member or a few members, can't get in. Why the fuck you need a passport traveling the earth?

I'm just saying that regardless is the core of the matter. The gathering of land upon this earth is a pre-historic, caveman notion. 'This is mine, this is not yours and I dominate it with this doctrine'. It's like some old bullshit caveman We shouldn't talk about how much we've progressed when people are pledging allegiance to small little fiefdoms. Look man, I just came back from South Africa. Africa belongs to all people. So you have all types living there and they feel that you don't have the right to dominate the land and control the resources.

Do you think this will change or is it just the way it's set up?

Look, man. Dinosaurs were wiped off the earth – change is inevitable. Yo, man. Change is inevitable whether you're a part of it or not. Whether you initiate it or not. That's the way it is, dude.

Keep doing what yo' doing if yo' doing the right thing, man.

Jon and Roy
Homes
(Pacific Music/Warner)
****
If Victoria, B.C was to have a soundtrack, its hometown product, Jon and Roy, would be the ideal choice to provide the laid back vibe it seem to cater towards. Following the critically acclaimed Another Noon, the lush, folkish J and R’s third release Homes invites the summer in an almost irritatingly relaxed way. From the beginning of the mellow, backwoods opener “Any Day Now,” to it’s final melody “Deerfoot,” the Victorians sedative and whispery sound accompanies a peaceful feeling akin to Jack Johnson (without making you feel a bit embarrassed for liking it.) Jon and Roy play the Starlite Thursday the 22nd and their show promises to make you forget all your worries and forget all your cares.